April_Rose
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My thoughts on Live Together, Die AloneDiscussion is welcome on any points raised (please discuss, pretty please) and if it is something you think will create further discussion feel free to set it up as a new topic. I've tried to make it reader-friendly
Suspicious incidents or things which stood out and need further consideration:
1. Widmore. being right outside a military prison. For this to happen he woudl have had to be given permission from someone in a high place, high up in the military itself. He is a man with soem powerful connections. Someone like Alvar Hanso might be the kind of person who would have made introductions at some stage.
All the same he does not seem to realise that his daughter has learned from him and is using her own friends in high places, and her money, to find Desmond again, as she did after he got out of prison.
2. "Elizabeth".
- First, she seems to be watching him while he fumbles for money and has the money for the particular coffee he wants handy.
- Then she clearly steers the conversation back to the 'joke' he made about another $42 000.
- Her husband David - There are many names out there. Lost has been very careful not to re-use any so far. I know that in real life there are often two people by the same name in a group of friends or owrkplace but in television or writing in general this can easily cause confusion so generally everyone has a different name unless it is a comedy where they will take advantage of the confusing nature of the situation. That her supposed dead husband had the same name as Hurley's imaginary friend has to be more than coincidence.
- However, the meeting between Desmond and Libby took place approiximately four years ago (he had 9 months to get in shape and was on the island for three years) and as far as I know this was before Hurley was in the mental hospital with Libby. Still trying to figure out significance (if any) of this.
- When she tells Desmond about her husband she says he's been dead 'about a month'. Anyone who has ever lost someone close to them would not use language like this. they would know it was exactly 29 days, or 33 days, or whatever. there would be no 'about'. it is too vague for something that has supposedly left her heartbroken. She might even say 'just over a month' or 'almost a month ago' but not 'about a month ago', it just doesn't ring true.
Could it be therefore that she was hired by Widmore or already working with him to ensure that Desmond would end up on a solo boat race from which he could be brought to the island and kept away from Penny?
- The boat itself, the Elizabeth, also says Newport Bridge (i think). I don't know much about boats and names but I wonder has anyone spotted this before? it might be just the home port or something but it was the first time I noticed it and I just wonder if it has any other significance.
3. Pala Ferry.
People have speculated a lot as to whether the boat Michael gets is the pala ferry but i don't think that's what's relevant. The dock is where the Pala Ferry was to dock in order to pick up passengers who had done their tour of duty in the pearl hatch and take them on to who knows where? However it seems that while it may once have been soemthing Dharma were in charge of now it is in the Others territory. perhaps they captured more Dharma operatives before as well?
- As well as this Pala is an island in the utopian fantasy novel "The Island" by Aldous Huxley. It is corrupted and eventually destroyed by the greed of outsiders. The Others may truly believe that what they are doing is preserving their way of life, hence their constant reiteration of their belief 'we're the good guys'. then again, it was in all likelihood Dharma that named it so it might have nothing to do with the Others except that they use it as a place to dock the boat.
4. Events of that day in September when the plane crashed, and leading up to it.
- Kelvin made a direct reference to the fact that Desmond was not good at obeying orders, then gave him one. When he went outside he made a point of saying goodbye and the tear in his suit was obvious - perhaps saying 'goodbye' was just to get Desmond to turn around so that he would see it. He was clearly drawing Desmond out. Whether because he had grown to like his company and felt guilty about leaving him on the island, or for the more sinister purpose of causing the button not to be pressed is purely speculation but I for one am going for the latter.
- The plane was not supposed to be above the island. it was 1000 miles off course, and this was because a radio and coms failure made the pilot turn around. However, many people on the plane were directly connected to someone on the island.
-Eko - The plane he was meant to take off from Nigeria in, carrying his friend and brother, had crashed there years before, which is strange enough in itself because that plane would not have been able to fly as far as the Indian ocean from West Africa, never mind across it and on over the Pacific.
-Sayid met kelvin in Iraq, and Kate's stepfather also knew him.
-Libby and Jack are both connected to Desmond
-Hurley is connected to the numbers
- Also, the Others, referred to by Kelvin as "the Hostiles", knew the real name of Sawyer, and seemed to know plenty about the rest of them.
- Plus, the Others had people in place in both sites of the plane crash (Ethan and Goodwyn) pretty much immediately. I find it highly unlikely given the size of the island that this is a coincidence.
All in all, my theory on this is that Kelvin was working together with both the Others and someone in the outside world to ensure that the plane would be overhead at that time on that day so that it could be brought down. This points to a saboteur on board the plane as well - possibly Libby or Cindy or the pilot himself (bear in mind that he was the only one the monster has actually harmed - maybe because he told Jack and Kate and Charlie more than they were supposed to know?) or someone else who may have stowed away in the coffin.
5. Radzinski.
- We have no proof that this guy ever existed. All we have is Kelvin's word for it and we know he is a liar. A stain proves nothing. (even if he did exist, there is no reason to believe that Kelvin didn't shoot him, perhaps because Kelvin had switched sides and was now working for or in league with the Others)
- According to Desmond's falshback Kelvin continued the work of painting the map on the door after Radzinski shot himself. Why did Desmond never ask what the map was of, how did Kelvin know what was supposed to be on it, and since they knew how to fake a lockdown why didn't they turn on the UV light at the same time to make it easier? And why didn't Desmond try to read the map once Kelvin was dead? Having been lied to by Kelvin surely he would have been curious?
6. The Statue
It's funny how often the line has actually been misquoted - it's actually "I don't know what is more disquieting, that the rest of it is missing or that it has four toes".
I don't think we know much about it yet but I'm sure it will come to the fore more later on. I suppose one of the most important questions about it is how old it is - could it have been built by ancient tribes who lived on the island or is it a more recent addition? Was there ever a whole statue? i dont see a platform for the other foot.
7. the whispers
They do say 'Elizabeth' though I think they also say something else, not sure what as the music kicks in and drowns it out.
8. Penelope
The guys in the arctic/antarctic station seemed to be on the lookout for a magnetic anomally. how Penny knew to look for this is another matter, but they did appear to find it when the magnet went haywire. We still don't know though, what will happen now that the key was turned. Will it be visible to he outside world? the magnet was always there before and didn't explode, my own theory is that it was Dharma's encasing it in concrete that caused the charge to build up, so it still might be difficult to find if the magnet is still creating magnetic radiation, in fact harder as there would be no chance of an anomally. It has taken Penny three years to find it at all, so I don't think we should expect the cavalry just yet. Plus, don't forget, tiem moves slowly in Lost. They're only there a bit more than two months (Locke says 60-65 days to Desmond in the finale) and it'll take Penny a few weeks to get organised. Still, now someone knows where to look it shoudl open up other possibilities.
A final thought - when Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley and Michael find the pneumatic tube's exit point and all the stuff written in the books, plus Locke's drawing, it really hits home how bad the communication is. I really think that for the timebeing, instead of any one person being leader, there shoudl be a council who will tell each other everything relevant about the island and lead the group with a concensus (rather than authoritativly and with no regard for antyhing other than than them being right - are you listenign Jack?)
My nominations for this leadership council would be
Locke - has had to deal with ebing wrong and I'd say he'll have learned from that.
Sayid - has been a soldier so knows about battles, but also knows more about the island than some of the rest, plus he is very good at being practical when assessing risks etc.
Sun - She thought of planting a garden and that's the kind of forward planning that will come in handy.
Other possibilities might be Eko for his (generally) calm wisdom, Rose for her kind yet rational head plus her belief in the power of the island, Desmond (again, army training plus the fact he was on the island for so long)
Any thoughts?
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Guest
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Wow, i'm quite proud of myself for reading every word of that, and great respect for you writing every word of that :]
They're some really good thoughts, some i'd already considered and some that have got me thinking even more. The idea at the end for there being a council.. great idea! There have been so many moments where if the losties had just talked about everything they knew between themselves, they would've overcome much more of what they've done. As you said, im talking about Jack and especially Locke.
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April_Rose
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Why thank you lost_maniac 
I had long enough over the break to think of it and write it, glad you like it, I'm sure some of the stuff will turn out to be answered immediately (already my theory that Kelvin was working with the Others to bring the plane down has been shot down by the opening ep of season 3) and other stulff will take longer or turn out that I'm looking in the wrong direction...I must now write the same style of thing for Tale of Two Cities. I had it done on friday but my computer crashed and I lost it all (well, my dogs knocked the electricity wire out of the back of it!)
They really shoudl have a leadership council I think - Jack and Locke are the main culprits but Sawyedr, Eko Kate and more are also guilty of keeping things to themselves - the only person who has shared whatever he has learned with people he thinks might benefit is Sayid, so he'd be good on the council. Also everyone shoudl say what skills they have that would be useful to the group at large. I mean everyone is allowed privacy but all the secrecy is getting annoying - its a good plot device for a while but now we have seen enough of it - they need to start trusting each other.
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Guest
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I look forward to reading your thoughts on Tale of 2 citites, though i suggest you wait until you've seen ep2 aswell cos then you can mix them both :]
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April_Rose
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yeah, that's the plan, as I didn't get around to it tomorrow I'll write my thought son the first two epis
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Guest
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I've posted some of my thoughts on ep 2 now, i look forward to seeing yours :]
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Guest
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keep on posting im reli interested at the mo
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Guest
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yeah
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April_Rose
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So interesting now we know about the other island, the whole boat thing and the dock scene makes far more sense - Ben brought Walt in the boat from the small island with the Hydra hatch, and after Kate and Jack and Sawyer are knocked out they are presumably bundled into the submarine - hence why the action too place on the dock, as it was the easiest way to transfer the captives to the sun, which would have needed deep water.
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